“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

On today’s HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan debate radical workplace transparency: eliminating private Slack messages. They explore tensions between cultural openness, practical communication needs, and effective use of asynchronous tools.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) The “No Private DMs” Rule(01:04) First Reactions: How This Would Actually Work(01:54) The Case for Transparency: Underground Slack Channels Are Toxic(02:35) The Reality Check: Leaders Still Need Private Conversations(03:42) Is Radical Transparency Just Performance Art?(04:20) The Productivity Problem: Slack Surfing vs Getting Work Done(05:11) Creating a “How We Slack” Document with Clear Rules(06:15) Using Public Channels to Develop Holistic Leaders(07:13) The Jensen Huang Model: Why He Doesn’t Do One-on-Ones(08:12) Sponsors: Ethena | Metaview(11:34) Hyper-Transparency from the CEO Builds Trust(12:31) It All Comes Down to Judgment(13:11) The Audio Message Revolution: Why Voice Beats Typing(15:20) Good vs Bad Audio Messages: It’s About Sender Judgment(16:15) The 10x Pace: Why Traditional Meeting Cadences Don’t Work Anymore(17:34) Final Thoughts: Experiment with Your Communication Style(17:46) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Sally Thornton, CEO and Founder of Forshay who offers a candid examination of fractional executive work, exploring trust barriers, adverse selection problems, pricing models, and why consulting acumen matters more than traditional executive experience.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH SALLY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSally: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sallythornton/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Forshay: https://forshay.com/-For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:46) The Trust Barrier: Why Companies Resist Fractional Work(03:34) The TAM Debate and Market Dynamics Post-COVID(05:14) The Dirty Secret: There’s No Such Thing as Fractional Work(06:34) Sponsors: Ethena | Metaview(10:01) Who’s Buying and Why Finance Gets It(11:06) Let’s Talk Money: The 65/35 Structure and Market Rates(12:30) The Honeymoon Phase: Managing Boundaries and Expectations(14:44) How to Assess Fractional Executives: The 75% Rule(16:31) From Interim to Modular: How the Market Evolved(18:04) The Black Hole Question: Why Nobody’s Calling You Back(19:36) Network for Yourself: Nobody’s Managing Your Career But You(21:36) How to Sustain 15 Years: Running Experiments & Following Curiosity(22:31) Closing Thoughts: Agents for Executives Don’t Yet Exist(23:11) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Culture Amp CEO Didier Elzinga, revealing data-driven insights on building culture-first companies, balancing psychological safety with accountability, and prioritizing growth as engagement’s foundation.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH DIDIER, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINDidier: https://www.linkedin.com/in/didierelzinga/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Culture Amp: https://www.cultureamp.com/For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:30) From Harry Potter to Building Culture Amp(02:16) What Is a Culture-First Company?(03:19) The Coherency Matrix: Trust vs. Mission Orientation(04:40) Growth: The One Thing That’s Never Changed(05:36) Leaders Matter More Than Managers (The Data)(07:09) Don’t Bother Convincing People Who Don’t Get It(08:02) How Structured Reviews Closed the Gender Gap(09:17) Sponsor: Ethena | Metaview(12:39) Data Is Just the Start of Honest Conversations(13:28) Esther Perel: Leaders Don’t Know How to Say No(14:16) My Engagement Survey Mistake as CPO(15:32) Feedback Is Not a Gift, It’s a Workout(16:23) How We Run Culture Amp: Values and Growth(18:45) We Can’t Be Everything for Everyone(20:07) Storytelling: The Most Important Leadership Skill(22:07) Finding Your Authentic Narrative(23:32) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Coinbase Chief People Officer LJ Brock reveals how the company’s mission-first philosophy, refusal to negotiate salaries, and rigorous talent density standards challenge conventional HR orthodoxy.Support our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.KEEP UP WITH L.J., NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINL.J.: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lbrock/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Coinbase: http://www.coinbase.com/For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:46) Banning Politics at Work(02:29) Backlash and Reality: “You’ll Never Work Again”(04:32) The Near-Death Moment(05:22) How Coinbase Creates Radical Ideas(06:34) Talent Density: The Future of Hiring Standards(09:04) CEO Approval for Every Hire(09:14) Real-Time Feedback: Eliminating Manager Bias(11:33) Performance Systems That Don’t Suck(13:34) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful(16:43) Work Trials(15:37) Sponsor: Metaview(16:43) Work Trials: The 12-Week Internship Strategy(19:49) Single Pay Target(21:00)Executive Alignment on No Negotiation(22:03) Stock Grants: From Four Years to One Year(23:17) Building the Next Generation of CHROs(26:40) Closing This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On today’s HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan deliver candid analysis of H1B visa policy disruptions impacting tech hiring, then recap their Confluent People Team offsite with Colleen McCreary, featuring contrarian HR perspectives on compensation equity, organizational beliefs, and fostering intellectual disagreement.Support our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:40) H1B Visa Impact on Tech(11:48) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful(15:25) Confluent People Team Offsite Recap(20:37) Sponsor: Metaview(22:27) Contrarian HR Beliefs & Organizational Leadership(27:34) Fashion Roast: Is Silicon Valley Dressing Up?(29:08) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On today’s Dear Heretics segment, Kelli and Nolan deliver candid, practical advice for Chief People Officers navigating their critical first 90 days, featuring real-world insights on building stakeholder trust, executing quick wins, and establishing strategic organizational influence.Support our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:13) Three Core Goals for New CPOs(01:41) Common Fail States to Avoid(02:03) Over-Communicating with Your CEO(02:23) Building Executive Relationships Beyond One-on-Ones(02:58) Getting to the Ground Floor: The Modern Executive Approach(03:19) The Colleen McCreary Method: 100 One-on-Ones in 90 Days(04:26) Quick Wins and Board Relationship Strategy(04:44) Four-Pillar Framework in Action(05:34) Pre-Start Transparency: Setting Expectations Early(06:40) The Four Pillars: Listen, Execute, Strategize, Build(08:18) The Brutal Reality: 3X Speed for Three Months(09:15) Sprint vs Marathon: Managing Energy and Family Expectations(09:58) Reframing “S**t Shows” as Solvable Problems(11:22) The Critical Importance of In-Person Time(12:13) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful(15:22) Building on Company Strengths vs Starting from Scratch(16:31) Team Building Strategy: Know Before You Walk In(17:47) Making “Unnatural” Efforts for Face-Time(18:33) Build Your Scaffolding or Die: The Team Priority(20:14) Ditch HR Speak: Talking Business, Not Corporate Vernacular(21:47) CEO Shadowing: What It Really Means(23:00) Real Partnership: Daily Communication and Quick Feedback Loops(23:59) Sponsor: Metaview(25:18) The Bait-and-Switch Problem in Executive Hiring(27:10) Market Reality: Nine-Month Average Tenure Crisis(29:21) Board Relationships and Air Cover Strategy(30:10) Building Your Narrative: Board Meeting Preparation(31:41) Documentation Strategy: Journaling and Whiteboarding(32:09) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan talks to Immigration attorney Nicole Gunara (Manifest Law) who analyzes the new $100,000 H-1B policy that sparked rapid industry adaptation across Silicon Valley, breaking down how this strategic shift creates different advantages for big tech versus startups while driving companies to explore innovative alternative visa pathways.Support our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.KEEP UP WITH NICOLE, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNicole: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ngunara10/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Manifest Law: https://manifestlaw.com/Gary Tan’s LinkedIn post: A $100K H1B fee won't bother big tech…For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:51) What Happened Friday Night: The $100K H-1B Bombshell(02:53) Monday Reality Check: What We Actually Know(04:16) Clear vs. Unclear: Exemptions and Renewal Definitions(07:49) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful(10:58) Crisis Response Strategy: Audit, Pause, and Pivot(15:56) The Alphabet Soup: Alternative Visa Pathways(21:19) Sponsor: Metaview(23:08) The O-1 Opportunity: 94.5% Approval Rates Explained(24:43) The Startup Dilemma: Gary Tan vs. Big Tech Advantage(28:57) Strategic or Chaotic? The Department of Labor Clue(30:13) America's STEM Pipeline Problem: The Real Policy Driver(32:21) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Returning guest Bryan Power (Head of People, Nextdoor) talk about AI workplace adoption, contrasting executives who avoid AI as time-consuming with his dedicated approach of treating AI as teammates, scheduling one-on-ones with custom GPTs, and transforming workflows.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.KEEP UP WITH BRYAN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINBryan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanpower/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Nextdoor: https://nextdoor.com—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:00) The Tinkerer vs. The Resisters(03:00) The AI Bubble and Workplace Resistance(05:00) Project Neighbor: Nextdoor's AI Initiative(07:00) Case Study: Building AI Training with ChatGPT(09:00) Mental Model Shift: AI as Teammate, Not Tool(10:00) Scheduling One-on-Ones with Custom GPTs(10:51) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful(14:01) Executive Offsite Planning: AI in Action(16:00) The Onboarding Problem: Context and Custom GPTs(18:00) Compensation GPT: Domain-Specific AI Applications(21:00) Output and Velocity: Gamma and Slide Creation(22:43) Sponsor: Metaview(24:37) Optional or Essential: The Future of AI Adoption(26:00) The Mass Extinction Event for Knowledge Workers(30:00) Creating Permission to Tinker(32:00) Restructuring Executive Time for AI(34:00) Corporate Lingo Roast(44:08) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Katelin Holloway, Founding Partner of Seven Seven Six. Katelin argues HR professionals possess essential early-stage investing skills, and advocates their transition from support roles to decision-making positions through founder relationship-building strategies.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH KATELIN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINKatelin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katelinholloway/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS: Seven Seven Six: http://sevensevensix.com—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:27) How HR "Found" Katelin: The Accidental Career Path(02:02) Pixar University: Learning from World-Class People Operations(03:16) Meeting Alexis Ohanian: The Reddit Turnaround Story(04:12) When Employees Refused to Wear Company Swag(04:43) Why Hard Challenges Build Deeper Professional Bonds(05:42) From Boardroom to Back Room: The VC Industry Problem(07:24) Why Early-Stage Investing IS People Work(08:52) The "Talent Partner" Problem: Wasted Potential in VC(09:40) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(12:03) The Marc Andreessen Challenge: Selection vs. Support(13:23) Platform Shifts Are Disrupting Venture Capital(14:07) Product and People First: 776's Different Approach(15:30) The Tactical Playbook: How to Break Into Venture(15:49) Build Founder Relationships, Not VC Relationships(16:22) The "How Can I Help?" Problem: Why Most VCs Fail Founders(17:39) From Advisor to Angel: Getting Equity Without Cash(18:28) The Golden Rule: Genuine Help Must Come First(20:06) Ed Catmull's 5-Year Rule: Knowing When to Leap(21:57) Why the Smartest People Never "Figure It Out"(22:26) Closing: Building the Future of Venture Capital This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Iain Roberts, Airbnb's Global Head of Employee Experience and discuss his transition from IDEO designer to Airbnb's CHRO, exploring how design thinking principles reshape organizational structure, collaborative leadership, and workplace policies in opposition to traditional HR practices.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH IAIN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINIain: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsiainNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Airbnb: http://airbnb.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:08) "Everything Needs to be Designed" Philosophy(02:48) Founder Mode: Leadership Through Collaboration(05:50) The One Roadmap Strategy(08:04) Prototyping Human Experiences(12:14) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(14:42) Live and Work Anywhere: The Contrarian Bet(18:12) Talent Strategy & Future of Work(20:19) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this latest installment of AI Corner, Kelli, Nolan and CEO Metaview Siadhal Magos discuss the "Trough of Disillusionment" in enterprise AI adoption, exploring the gap between inflated expectations and practical implementation realities in recruiting workflows.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview 10x Recruiting Podcast - instead of recycled LinkedIn takes, you get contrarian insights from operators who've actually built elite talent machines. Instead of theory, you get real tactics and metrics from leaders at Vercel, Coinbase, and Uber.Head to The 10x Recruiting Podcast for more interviews like this one: https://www.metaview.ai/resources/10x-recruitingKEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSiadhal: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/siadhalNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction: The Trough of Disillusionment(01:41) The Dinner Revelation: "We Don't Do S**t"(03:31) MIT Study: 95% of AI Pilots Are Failing(04:19) "They're Doing It Wrong"(07:02) The Human Curse of Instant Gratification(08:51) Early Adopters vs. The Wait-and-See Crowd(10:46) The Expectations Correction(12:33) Sponsors: Metaview 10x Podcast | Planful(14:25) The 30-Minute Rule: Small Wins Add Up(15:23) Stop Scaring People(16:59) Enterprise Reality Check(19:11) The Four Buckets of AI Value(21:16) Compensation Revolution(24:06) The Future of Compensation Strategy(28:46) The Great Adoption Debate(32:29) Forward Deployed Engineers: The New Reality(33:29) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church sit down with LinkedIn's VP of Talent Solutions Mark Lobosco to discuss their new "Hiring Assistant" - an agentic AI tool automating recruitment intake, sourcing, and messaging. Today, early adopters are saving 4+ hours per role, reviewing 62% fewer profiles, and seeing a 69% improvement in InMail acceptance rates. They also discuss how AI will affect recruiting roles, candidate requirements, and why LinkedIn profiles are about to get that much more critical.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH MARK, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINMark: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marklobosco/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:13) Intro(01:24) Introducing Hiring Assistant: LinkedIn's First Agentic Product(03:20) The ChatGPT Moment: Microsoft Partnership Changes Everything(05:30) Inside the Intake Process: From Chat Interface to Candidate Search(08:44) The Magic of Agentic Sourcing: "Go Get a Cup of Coffee"(10:06) Purple Squirrel Syndrome: Faster Feedback Loops for Hiring Managers(11:21) "I Love My Job and I Hate My Day": The Recruiter's Dilemma(12:06) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(14:34) LinkedIn Profile Optimization: The New Resume Reality(17:04) ATS Integration: The Next Generation of System Connect(18:33) The Beginning of the End of Sourcing(19:26) Charter Customer Success: Global Construction Company Results(22:30) AI Tool Overwhelm: What Does This Replace?(26:33) Product Access: Who Gets Hiring Assistant?(27:00) The Open to Work Banner Debate(28:12) Profile Pictures and Bias: Microsoft's Responsible AI Approach(30:22) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Dear Heretics is back! Kelli and Nolan explore strategic board engagement for people leaders, covering presentation frameworks, relationship building, and navigating the delicate balance between board influence and CEO loyalty.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:48) Dear Heretics: The Board Question(01:15) There Is No Best Practice(02:38) Know Your Level (Don't Be 27 at DoorDash)(03:49) If You Don't Set Strategy, Someone Else Will(05:34) The Carta Framework: Show Value, Ask for Help(06:30) Earn the Right Through Your CEO(07:28) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(10:00) Board Presentation Framework(11:00) Run It Like a Business: The QBR Method(11:51) Building Board Relationships: Start Early(13:00) They're Just F*cking People(14:00) Board Members Are Your Career Funnel(15:50) Start With One: The Relationship Strategy(17:16) The Loyalty Warning: Team CEO, Period(19:32) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, we talk to David Heinemeier Hansson (aka DHH), creator of Ruby on Rails and co-owner & CTO of 37signals. He critiques DEI implementation and workplace wokeness, advocates political neutrality at work, and outlines his organizational philosophy emphasizing minimal management, creative constraints, and HR as leadership firewall.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH DHH, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINDHH: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-heinemeier-hansson-374b18221/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Ruby on Rails: https://rubyonrails.org/37signals: https://37signals.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(02:34) "I Want My Code to Sing": Why Programming Is Poetry(04:35) How We Built a Company That Runs Itself(07:34) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(08:34) The 40-Hour Work Week That Silicon Valley Hates(11:05) The Remote Work Wars: Why Both Sides Are Wrong(15:14) "No Politics at Work": The Two Weeks That Changed Everything(17:00) How Wokeness Held Corporate America Hostage(22:16) The Hardest Two Weeks of My Professional Life(25:28) The DEI Deception: Why Equity Isn't Equality(27:40) Why HR People Don't Suck (And Founders Need Them)(31:00) Final Thoughts: People Go Crazy When Work Is Everything(33:35) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, we talked to Steve Cadigan, LinkedIn's first hired CHRO. Steve dissects LinkedIn's hypergrowth challenges, contrarian HR principles, and the fundamental shift from acquiring to developing talent internally.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSteve: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cadiganNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Metaview 10x Podcast: https://www.metaview.ai/resources/10x-recruiting—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:50) LinkedIn's Identity Crisis: When Your Product Is Your Problem(02:40) The Million-Dollar Question: "Why Would Anyone Want to Work Here?"(04:35) HR's Only Two Products: Judgment and Credibility(05:00) The Performance Review Rebellion(05:16) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(07:21) Jeff Weiner's Intensity Philosophy: "I Live Off Chaos"(08:10) The Vulnerability Breakthrough: How a CEO Learned to Inspire(10:15) The Ownership Revolution: Why Leadership Teams Must Own HR(11:15) Remote Work Reality Check: "We Don't Know Yet"(12:00) Blitz Scaling Failures: Inheritors vs. Builders(13:43) The Perfectionist's Trap: "Do You Hear All Those Balls Dropping?"(14:20) Why He'll Never Return: The Six-Year-Old's Question That Changed Everything(15:27) Future of Work: From Buy Talent to Build Talent Economy This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Kelli and Nolan critically examine employee engagement surveys, arguing they're performative exercises for disconnected executives rather than meaningful tools for understanding and improving workplace sentiment.In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan sit down with Dave Margulius discussing Quizlet's remarkable 18-year journey from a bootstrapped startup founded with teenage co-founders to a globally successful education platform, sharing insights on building company culture, managing young talent, transitioning from founder to board member, and maintaining mission-driven values while achieving sustainable growth.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Related article:https://www.businessinsider.com/att-ceo-memo-workplace-loyalty-dead-employees-job-security-2025-8 Nolan's Linkedin post:https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nolan-church_when-can-we-eliminate-employee-engagement[…]m=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAAWcjXgBb3Jw6dX16PD9lRJSsxfgqVAqZLw—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:50) The 73% Response Rate That Changed Nothing(02:18) Devil's Advocate: Why Companies Think They Need Surveys(03:34) The Second Order Problem: Getting Data, Doing Nothing(04:30) "Get Out of the Ivory Tower"(05:28) Exit Interviews vs. Real Conversations(06:41) The Employee Perspective: Anonymous Survey Skepticism(07:37) The Performative Dance Exposed(08:43) Surveys as Substitutes for Real Leadership(09:13) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(11:41) Better Alternative: Executives in the Dirt(13:25) The Venture Capital Leadership Model(14:49) The Small Minority That Actually Cares(15:40) The Semantics Problem: Stop Saying "Engagement"(17:00) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan sit down with Dave Margulius discussing Quizlet's remarkable 18-year journey from a bootstrapped startup founded with teenage co-founders to a globally successful education platform, sharing insights on building company culture, managing young talent, transitioning from founder to board member, and maintaining mission-driven values while achieving sustainable growth.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH DAVE, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINDave: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davemarguliusNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Quizlet: https://quizlet.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(02:00) The $5 Trillion Education Opportunity(04:06) Meeting Andrew - The 17-Year-Old Co-Founder(06:04) CEO Transitions and Early Career(09:11) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(12:10) Building a Teenage Team(16:03) Managing Young Talent and Pure Adrenaline(19:17) The Shift to VC Funding(22:15) Company Culture and Values(26:19) Mission vs ROI Balance(29:05) 18-Year Journey and Staying Competitive(32:01) Employee Value Proposition and Liquidity(35:00) Competition and Market Position(36:06) Closing Thoughts(37:27) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today on HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli critically examine the effectiveness and limitations of traditional exit interviews as organizational diagnostic tools, questioning their performative nature and strategic value.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:42) The Performative Checkbox Problem(01:38) The Fear Factor: Why Employees Won't Tell the Truth(02:39) The Real Exit Interview(04:06) The Drug Story: When Exit Interviews Actually Work(06:06) The Diagnostic Fallacy(07:18) The Neutral Feedback Myth(08:47) The Art of Information Filtering(10:35) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(13:43) The Future People Leader Debate(16:49) Captain vs. Crew: Who Should Own These Problems?(18:11) The Completely Incomplete Nature(18:27) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, we talk to Casey Woo, founder of Operators Guild, and explore the evolution of elite business operators—generalist executives who transcend traditional titles to solve complex problems at high-growth companies, featuring insights on AI disruption, and community building.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH CASEY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINCasey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caseywooNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Operators Guild: https://operators-guild.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:15) WeWork Experience: Working with Adam Neumann(02:52) Key Lessons from WeWork(04:18) Current Market Climate & AI Impact(05:21) The AI Revolution in Customer Support(07:00) AI Management & the "Iron Man" Approach(07:31) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(10:38) The Unstoppable Nature of AI Adoption(11:31) The Rise of the Operator: Casey's Personal Journey(14:02) Operators Guild: From 9 to 900 Members(14:20) The Four Operator Personas(15:17) Why Titles Have "Screwed Us"(15:35) The Navy SEALs Analogy(16:27) Building Successful Communities(17:55) Do You Ever Miss Operating?(18:43) The Future Path: From Operator to Founder(19:10) Breaking the Retirement Mindset(19:56) Advice for Operators: Have Confidence(21:28) The Power of Team Building(22:00) The Next Level: Capital & Founding(22:31) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today on HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan analyze the controversial Windsurf acquisition prompted by Windsurf employee #2's explosive social media post about receiving only 1% equity payout despite Google's $2 billion deal, highlighting Silicon Valley's eroding compensation norms.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) Prem's Bombshell Tweet(01:32) The DeepMind vs Cognition Choice(02:16) Clarifying the Exploding Offer(04:15) Kelly's Google Looker Experience(05:00) Why Contract Protections Don't Matter(06:07) Leadership Accountability(07:16) Silicon Valley's Broken Unwritten Rules(08:38) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(11:37) Culture vs Money in Acquisitions(13:00) First Principles: The New Acquisition Reality(14:56) Gary Tan's Tone-Deaf Response(15:41) The Chaos of Modern Tech(17:00) The Power of Social Media Transparency(17:49) Wrap-Up This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com